Welcome to mind your own marketing business podcast, where we explore marketing trends and technology, gaining insider knowledge from the industry's best, you're just proud to present mind your own marketing business with host Joe Barsness.

 Thanks for joining us on the Mind Your Own Marketing Business Podcast. I'm Joe Varsonis from Web and Software Development Team Fjord. And today on our show, we'll be talking with Jason Nyus from Shopware. Welcome to the show, Jason.

Pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Shopware.com
‍

All right. Happy Friday. It's Friday in November of 2024. For those of you listening, um, in the future, I guess. It'd be nice to know how the future goes now. But, uh. Um, we'll certainly, uh, just like to put a little timestamp on there for our listeners. Um, so Jason, I almost always start my show with a little bit of a background about you and kind of where you're at today.

So tell me a little bit about, um, yourself, how you came into, uh, an industry, which is e commerce. I will call it at the broadest scale. Tell me about how you. Uh, what schooling was like, how you ended up in it, and how you've made a career of it. Awesome.

to, uh, Uh, I'm a, I'm a small town kid from, uh, Clearlake, Iowa, and, uh, went to Iowa state and got a degree in marketing.

And when you have a degree in marketing, you could be  many, many different things. And what I gravitated to in my life is really the, the, the positioning and selling and brand and really how all that stuff is applied to e commerce. And so moved up to the twin cities, uh, of Minneapolis. Uh, back in 2000 and, uh, my second job actually was with a company called digital river, which was a pretty big force in the e commerce history. And I was fortunate enough at digital river to have virtually every job in sales and marketing and partnership and customer success.  it really kind of set the foundation,  for what I'm doing today at Shopware, really leading the North American go to market, uh, and, and other things.

Yeah, such a cool story. And we'll, here in Minnesota, we'll accept that you're from Iowa, um, you know, but we have our opinions that I'll leave off for now. Um, alright, so  I think Jason, one of the things just to get out of the way, Shopware might be a new term to people. So I just want a quick, we're going to dive deeper into this, quick overview as to what the heck is Shopware.

Yeah. Well, I got a call from a recruiter about two and a half years ago,  my team's probably sick of me telling them this story, but when I got the call from the recruiter, they said. Uh, we have this leadership position at Shopware. We'd love for you to talk to the team. And I said, well, who the hell is Shopware and why does the world need another commerce platform? And I was being very sincere. Uh, you know, my time at Digital River, we went from being a market leader in the Gartner Magic Quadrant in commerce.  Uh,

Um,

Minnesota company with 1500 employees was now

We

an app  called merchant of record. And we put that into salesforce.

can do it.

We put that into SAP. We put that into

I just want to make sure that we're not missing anything. Um, so. I'm going to close the presentation. The next thing I'm going to do is I'm going to ask the audience to vote. And I asked them, um, what do you think about the New York Times article that they did on the Trump administration's effort to remove the president of the United States from office.

And I asked them, um, what do you think about the United States effort to remove the president of the United States from office? And they said, no, it's a bad idea. And I said, well, I don't think that's a bad idea.  Mhm.

i've seen everybody in the

I'm sorry.

Um, the, the, the product itself is new. It was launched in December of 2019, which gives us an enormous

Okay. it's a slide to the right to show that you've got a And I'll put a link to it right here so you can go ahead and grab any questions you have. And we're happy to talk to you again next time. And I hope we have a great meeting.

excited. And so, you know, we can talk more about some of the trends in e commerce and why shopware is kind of trying to be the counterculture, uh, if you will. Uh, but that's really what I saw and really why, why I joined.

Got it. Wow, man, what a, what a great story and a great opportunity and really leading the charge. And I think, um, that as I learned a little bit about shopware, cause we both had the same reaction when we first heard it, only I heard it from you, um, is that, uh, it's a German based company, correct? And the, the growth has been in Europe and they're making, you are making a push in the United States.

Is there. Anything to expand on there?

there is. Thank you. So yeah, they are, we are, uh, German based, uh, been around 24 years.  the product is new, not the company.  what's really also interesting about it. I, I, I have very few skills in, in life, but e commerce, I actually know. And  every time you look at a Gartner Magic Quadrant or a Forrester Wave, you look at these companies,  at where they're from.

It's a really interesting tell um, but of the gardener magic quadrant last year I think like 10 or 11 of the companies on that quadrant have origins And  it really starts to make you wonder,

So, it's gonna be a shot at transcription, and it's gonna have, uh, this, uh, this awesome audio sound, and, uh, um. I'm not gonna show you the script now, but I'll, uh, I'll do the, um, I'll do the, um,

um,  detail orientation is no detail too small for

Okay.

in Germany. Great engineering, great focus, great detail, which leads to really great commerce platforms. And so  Germany, where all of these companies have origins, including the CEO of Shopify, mind you.  In that market shop where has about a 20 to 25 percent market share of all commerce done in Germany, not on a marketplace. And so what that tells you is most brands in Germany who are mid market or above  you shop where And that was a pretty

Yeah. Okay.

for me that this is a real product with a real customer base and a real offering that The u.

s market needs to know about  and i'm not alone because um the carlisle group Which is like the second largest private equity business in the world and paypal themselves  in 100 million bucks into shopware, uh, which is part of the reason i'm here today

Makes sense. Yeah, that's a, that's a cool, a great opportunity. And, you know, you've got that, like what, as I learned about it a little bit, like I love the fact that it's established, yet to me it, and the people that I'm talking to, it's new. That's like one of those things that's in all compared to something that in my past relates is, uh, I don't know how good of a comparison this is, but I'm going to do it anyway, is the, franchise experience.  I know this might be a little wild, but like  you have a hundred operating stores of Chick fil A. Let's just say.  But nobody had heard about Chick fil A in Minnesota until they had 250 stores elsewhere. And then you get to come to this market with this, like, I know this works other places. If I just tell these people about it, they're really going to like it.

And it's really going to work. And I think that's kind of the, the opportunity that, that I've seen happening for you all in, in over the last few months as we've met.

Well, I, I really like that example. Um, because we have an incredibly high,  I'm not bragging, but we have a really high win rate when we get things into a qualified stage in our pipeline. And what that means is  we almost always went on features and functions. We almost always went on unique capabilities. We almost always win on price and we almost always win on, you know, our willingness to support and do whatever it takes. Uh, but we lose on brand recognition. People just don't know who we are in

Yeah.

And so the Chick fil A example is a really good one.  when you open up a new Chick fil A, there's lines around the block now, but it wasn't always the case.

Yep, exactly. Right. Um now for the most important question of the day because I have a background with You know the word shopify for years and I also have a background with the word Spotify  and now you all are adding shopware to this vocabulary And I can't tell you how many times people misuse the word shopify and You Spotify.

So how is it,  how hard is it for you and your team and your clients to keep these words straight? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

has done. They have created an unbelievable product that solves  most of the needs for relatively simple brands and they're unbelievable.  shop where generally speaking, if you're a good merchant or a prospect for shop where you have to have some complexity in your business, you have to have, you need to recognize economic benefits of your scale, which means that you're doing a lot of revenue. You should get a better rate. There's a shop where example  if you're if you've got an enormous catalog that the performance on a product like Shopify be very slow You're a great candidate. You got a bunch of retail stores and you

Have you guys got picture of the buildings now? Well, uh, windows in this very sh oyn causing of the buildings. So, um, the Mexican Federation has proposed uh, an emergency operating within the all of this university The local in been designed for virtual communicating very much.

that make B2B complicated.

And we don't believe in a one size fits all model. Uh, and that's why our product is,  able to be customized and configured and changed to meet the needs of the business, not a one size fits all box. So your question is around, how do we keep these two things straight?  Shopify is for, you know, the easy  shop where is for more of the complex.

Yep, 100 percent Um, and, and with that, let's dive into, you know, one of the things as I was reading about this in, in learning about shop where, um, was the different. Options there are in In purchasing this software because a lot of times we consult at fjorge on the right  Cms or the right e commerce platform or even like dotnet or php um, and we have a number of different approaches to those, you know, all of that and What I realized when I started to dig into shopware a little bit was that there's open source, there's a free version, there's ways to pay for it based on sales, there's a way to pay for it based on size, it like, and usually, at least in my experience, that was like shopping between all of those options.

As a as a merchant was like across three to four platforms And shopping beyond the technology and and then but with shop where you it seems like you offer different ways to go about Creating value for the client. And so I just want you to talk about that if it truly is what i'm thinking about um  As as who who it's right for and how it can span so many different angles  Um, so anyway, I'm going to give you a brief introduction of this year's program and it's a lot of fun.

So just quickly, if you're new to this program, this is our program, It's going to be a lot of fun to teach you all about how to code. And it's gonna be something that you're going to be able to do on your own. So what we're going to do is, I'm going to give you a little bit, a little bit of background about our program.

So, um,

and companies who like to pay with things out of operating expense.  Well, what  if you're a b2b brand  hate a rev share? You're going to pay a percentage of a ten thousand dollar order that a rep was responsible for driving I'm going to pay it a technology a piece of that for taking the order  just doesn't seem to line So, you know at shop where we we actually have the ability to really price, uh, And provide value  in a rev share if you want Again, perfect for merchants who have really thick margins

Okay.

in this model, you look at all of your growth  and the cost of commerce is effectively a fixed rate.  of the economic benefits of scale, go back to you to invest in sales and marketing and other places.  Um, it effectively takes a business that it's perfect for businesses who have low margins  Um want to pay for things via capex  Or simply aren't a really competitive market that they need those

Joe.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

of how good our tech

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

when you're talking to companies who desire that.

Yeah, um,  that's, thank you for expanding on that and where that financial value potentially lies. I want to go back to kind of your overall e commerce expertise  and talk a little bit broad, more broadly about the market.

Yeah

you've been in this since 2000. Um,  and I know early on, I mean, just like a lot of things, it was.

e commerce was the biggest of the biggest business and then it was a lot of retail and then we started to hit  B2b And then now it's getting into more customization and automation And in all that like where are you seeing?  The most underserved market or the largest opportunity at the moment for if i'm a merchant or a business

Well, let's talk a little bit about  B2B  because I think this is the most important  conversation that has to happen around what we're seeing in the market.  So as you have very clearly pointed out, I've been in e commerce for a long time. I had a full head of hair, just like yours when I started. It's a very stressful

You you  you mentioned the year first. So just just so you know

anyway, every single year on this journey, I've seen slides  from my competitors, from our boards, from our executive staff, all across the board, that next year is going to be the big year for B2B. We're all betting big on B2B.  It's been this free beer tomorrow kind of thing in our industry.  And it makes sense philosophically. It's 10 X the size of B to C it's the lion's share of the companies in the United States. It is just such an obvious thing to say. But how and why they're saying that is what needs to be challenged.  there's this concept called the consumerization of B2B. Have you heard this term, Joe?

I actually have not.  Or if I did, I wasn't paying attention. One of the two.

So,  so, consumerization

I'll go ahead and do this. to be able to see the people who are watching the video and the people who are paying attention to the video. And, I think that's what's so I think that's what's so important to me and to the world. But, I think that's the biggest challenge for me to deal with, to deal with.

I think it's something that we can all do together. You know, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be here.

rep  And the argument is, Hey, everybody's a consumer in their daily life. They don't just switch to wanting to use a complicated B2B sales motion or buying motion because they're working for their company.  Um, while some of that's true, they don't want a crappy experience.  It's not how you unlock the real potential of B2B commerce.  At most, this consumerization of B2B strategy will unlock maybe 10 percent revenue.  I call that the easy 10%.  The only thing hard about that 10 percent is you have to deal with the channel conflict of taking the revenue away from the rep.  I'm forcing people to go to the website, which is more automated when you have more controls and you kind of get  the promise of e commerce  It is true. There is revenue there and we have many customers who use shopware in that way  However, the hard 90 percent opportunity  Locked up in  the sales reps  and you don't really unlock the revenue potential by competing with your sales reps.  unlock it by giving them tools and capabilities that they want to use.  it helps them make more money.  And I'm not talking about a mandate of another CRM product or force you to send, you know, e commerce to, to, to get your customers to buy there instead of through

And you can find it. I mean, it's a really easy and easy way to create a translation. So that's all I have today. so much. It certainly has. Well, for being here.

face to face if you want to.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

You're going to make or miss your

Okay. This is, uh, this is the um, uh, uh, um, uh, text, uh, uh, text, text, text, text. I would also like to acknowledge the members of the board of trustees and the board of trustees of the Board of Trustees of the University of Michigan.

this year, B2B,  because of the digital sales room is a brand new channel for them. Um, and so they're excited to attack the hard 90 versus the easy 10.  Hopefully that

Got it. Yeah.  No, perfect. Perfect. That way I didn't have to ask like three more questions. You just handed them all to me. That was great.  Um,  and the less talking I do, the better. So, uh, because I do plenty of it throughout the day. Um,  I want to talk about, like, to kind of give plain sense to people who have some e commerce idea.

Where are you seeing the most like a lot of clients? Um,  I mean, at least in e commerce as I know it today are not like  brand new to e commerce. They're re platforming, they're re strategizing.  Where are you with shopware seeing the, um, I guess in your world, I, you could call it success in transitioning.

What types of businesses, what size of businesses? We talked about B2B and B2C. Um, what platforms might they be coming from that they're struggling with? Uh, we'll You know, give me some background on what you're seeing in that world as it relates to shopware.

Yeah, well, so first and foremost, um,  there was some acquisitions that happened a decade ago  That we are starting to see the real positive effects of change in our industry today  And those those are acquisitions of  demand where it was acquired by salesforce You  SAP acquired Hybris and Adobe acquired Magento.  And these are all systems that were purpose built to serve the mid market back when they were originally conceived and kind of grew into dominance and earned their rights to be acquired by those three amazing software companies.  Well, fast forward to today.  Um, the majority of the customers that were on those systems and plenty of people bought it after the acquisition, but the majority of the people that are still on those systems right in this moment in time are trying to figure out what's next  and, uh, same thing with Oracle customers, same thing with the IBM customers. This is the next big shift in what's happening with commerce.  And for those in our

I don't know.

500 merchants off of

Okay. Okay. So once again, and happy African Rabbinic Day. Happy Saturdays and happy world fabrics. That's it for this meeting. See you next week for more programming from compliance and Facebook marketing. See you next week.

installs  and the like. So

Hello everyone.

for  mid market merchants who are trying to figure out what's next.

Yeah, cool. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's plenty of, you know, uh, different options out there, but  there are, there's going to be clear leaders. There can't be a hundred different e commerce systems. And I think that, you know, it benefits a lot, a number of people other than those,  95 that don't make the cut, um, but for to have developers that understand A few platforms and and all those things and so we're starting to again see a transition in different strategies and you know the consumerization of b2b and buying online and the comfort and the record keeping and the flexibility and the 3d all of those things and now with You know the digital sales room where you're building a cart Maybe it was somebody at home for your deck supply business or whatever it is And you those people need that little extra bit of like no, you bought the wrong nails.

You should use these because they'll Actually hold instead of not, you know That's the kind of advice you're looking for from a home improvement store or a you know Even a home depot think about that if you're you know, think how many times You've  I mean, this is a little bit of a tangent. Maybe not you, Jason, but every time I'm at Home Depot doing something new, I need to ask somebody first where it is.

And second, which one of these 18 options I should do. And they, they tell you, tell them about their, your project and they usually can actually give you some solid advice and  to get you over the hump. And then you're like, wow, I'm sure glad that they told me to use screws and not nails. Um, you know,

Transcripts

that's what I see with this digital sales room and where this is going. Um, and it's that hybrid of the sales approach combined with like on screen capabilities and, and that's one big thing that, that, that I'm looking forward to. So thank you for, for sharing all of that. Um, Jason, as we wrap up any other, I know this is a very open ended question and I don't usually end like this, but.

Um, I know you well enough to, to, to, to ask you, is there anything else about shopware or the, the e commerce industry that you think is important for marketers and technologists to know?

Um,  I mean, I got a long list. I'm trying to decide what's worth sharing. Um, well, first of all, I want to comment on your Home Depot example. Um, the biggest, the biggest lie ever told to me is Home Depot slogan. You can do it. We can help.  can not do it. Um, I mean. Someone else to do it for me, which is, you know, in the e commerce world, that's why people have used great agencies like Fjord  because you're an expert that this kind of development and capabilities, and you should leave some things to the experts.

That's for sure.

Right.

let's

Right. very much.

of  B2B is really a big lie that's a platform friendly lie.  other one is this RevShare  point I made earlier, which is a tax on your growth.  Um, another one that's out there is commerce platforms today in this true multi tenant SaaS world  actually have the ability to change their service level and their

I'm going to go ahead and get started.

when they want to.

I'm going to give you a little bit of background on what we're going to be talking about today.

last point i'll make is this concept that's emerged called vendor lock ins,

Okay. Okay. Okay.

we can all agree that the world's a better place when we don't have monopolies  Um, and and these kind of monopolies These are these are tactics that a monopolistic environment start to create ability to raise your price ability to force you to use a certain provider  etc. And so my closing comments i'll make is the reason I joined shopware is because we have the ability To not play by any of those games  we're European,  and we're, uh, we're trying to take market share and, and, uh, we can, we can play those games.

Best of luck for you to you, Jason. I know you're going to crush it. You and your team. Um, unfortunately for our listeners, that's all the time we have for today and mind your own marketing business.  If you want to learn more about Jason and Shopware, I recommend you visit just shopware. com. Uh, and also check out Jason and his team on LinkedIn,  which there will be links to in the episode show notes.

Uh, so, uh, again, Jason, thank you so much for being on the show.

Wonderful to be here, Joe. Really love working with Fjords. You guys are amazing, and thanks for letting me be on the pod.

All right. And thank you to our listeners for  📍 joining us. You can download episodes of our program by going to fjords. com slash podcast, or subscribe to the show on iTunes, SoundCloud, and Spotify.......

‍