Thanks for joining us on the mind your own marketing business podcast. I'm Joe Barsanis from web and software software development team Fjorge. And today on our show, we'll be talking with my good friend, John Galetka from Galetka plus welcome to the show, John.

Hey, thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Absolutely. All right. We are speaking, uh, mid December of 2024.

For those of you listening in the future, we have some, uh, discussions about news actually that came up today, John, we'll get to that later. Um, but as I always start, Uh, with this show, I want to learn a little bit more about John, your background and kind of how you got to starting your own thing at Galecca Plus.

Yeah, so  the agency world, this weird, strange place that I now live in and love, uh,  was a place, uh, let's see, it was a place I never thought or even aspired to be in. Uh, I kind of fell into this world, uh,  After college, right? And so the, the, the short ish story is, uh,  is a, is a South side kid who went to the air Institute.

I had to, um, you know, pay for a lot of it myself and that meant living at home, getting a job. And I was fortunate enough to get a job at, um, a large, uh, well, a job, when I say job, an internship at a large organization called Navistar, which makes big trucks, uh, work there all through college and post college.

And, uh, I didn't even, I didn't work in, in design or marketing. I worked in it for, uh, a big chunk of that time and it was, uh, taught myself how to clo code classic a SP. Now I'm gonna date myself,

Nice.

uh,  it got me by built, built the corporate intranet and extranet and chunks of, you know, records management applications, which I think, uh.

Both parties got a lot of value out of. I got to go to school, study painting. They got, um, intern rates. Uh, and, uh,  for those of us in business, we know what, we know what agencies would charge for that.

Yep.

But fast forward to, um, you know, a little bit later in my Navistar career, I got moved into marketing, worked on the public facing website and was exposed to these things called agencies.

Uh, started to work with some of the, uh, great agencies, um, at the time, um, fell out of Minneapolis, um, was hot and delivered and just a, just a great shop and a great partner. Worked with those guys. Um,  And ended up, um, after the corporation, uh, after I moved up and around to the corporation,  they moved me out to Schaumburg and, uh, that commute near killed me.

So I, I called one of my, uh, one of my agency partners, um, who was a spinoff of Fallon called Ratchet  and, uh, joined their crew, uh, opened the Chicago office, uh, worked there for years. Um, and then, you know, went on after that to join one of the bigs.  Which was DDB and their tribal division, which is also a client, got involved in some of the first iPhone app launches and large brands like McDonald's sort of stuff.

Wonderful.

Yeah, and then rode my way through that world to to Deutsche, LA Before coming back to Chicago and finding myself in, um, some small agencies loved LA, by the way, another great agency learned so much from, I think, some of the best, um, best creatives out there, uh, still killing it, but ended up coming back to Chicago, um, to work at a smaller agency because of some, uh, some life issues, personal stuff, and ended up loving the small agency world.

Ran, um, ran with Avenue for, uh, for a few years before getting the startup bug and getting back into tech and then ran, um, you know, what Wikipedia now calls a now defunct micro donation platform. Got to got to build that, but it was, uh.  Super fun and said, cover costs. I went back in the agency world and kind of started to fall in love with it.

Um,  worked out of Chicago and Minneapolis, um, and ended up getting together with a few of my old partners from ratchet and joined in, uh, joined in a Minneapolis themed agency in the ballot, Minneapolis agency world. And we ended up, um, jumping in on Duffy and, uh, I mistaken that and working with, working with the family.

Um, and then when that, when that ran out, I went back and, um, worked at a Chicago agency called Fusion 92,  uh, did their agency service business and did that for a couple of years and  said, ah, that's my time. Um, it was a super like, again, all nice, all nice, fun, good exit, everything. And ended up, my wife is like, well, you gotta get to work or do something.

Um, you're sitting in the basement, uh, you know, being a crazy person. So I ended up taking out a few clients and then COVID hit and my old team got furloughed and I hired, um, one really strong designer and built this agency up from there.  Uh, now we're.  26 person independent agency out of Chicago, uh, and loving it.

And that's the, that's the story of me to Galetka plus. And there's obviously that was long, but there's lots along the way. So hopefully that covers.

yeah, we've known each other for a number of years and rehearing all of that story, um, makes me, uh, more confident in, in why we have such good conversations because both technology and agency focus and, and kind of strategy and great creative is the worlds that, that we both live in. Um, throughout our time of knowing each other. So, yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for that background. Let's talk a little bit about, uh, Galetka Plus. So you said 26 person agency based in Chicago. I visited just a couple of weeks ago. Um, I think it's, would you consider it Westloop?  that, is that the area?

Yeah. Yeah. It says they is West loop. I always tell locals in Chicago, like we're right, wishbone and those who don't know.

There you go. Perfect. Um,  talk a little bit about, about what you're trying to do at Galetka Like, what is the strategy? What's working? What do you do really well? And who do you serve really well?

Yeah, good question. So, um,  who do we serve? Well, so I think, well, let me step back at the highest level like we're, we're an agency. We're not ashamed to be an agency. We're not the anti agency. I sort of, I love the business. There's a lot of great things about it and a lot of things we do. I, I. You know, a lot of my peers, they've done well.

I've started agencies to be the anti business, to be the alternative.  Uh,  I started this company to embrace what agencies do well, deliver great credit, drive business solutions, solve problems, um, and do it in, you know, just, uh, do a few things a little bit differently.  Or maybe even a little bit better. And early on, right?

Like we made our way and clients hired us, you know, I think, you know, for our thinking and quality of the work, but also for the way we worked, right. We started from day one with our, our books open. And what that meant was obviously transparency and pricing and engagement. But what it also meant was, um, clients were in our files with us.

Uh, we took almost, uh, um, an agile.  Approach to creative, like we did with software development, running design sprints, applying that to brand, um, and in those, those combinations that level of collaboration and a little bit of structure that we stole from tech worked awesome. Um, that. That and then our ability to, you know, we've always had a deep bench and we've already always served complex industries.

And as I look back, um,  at both this company in my career, our clients, you know, early on, we're in AI and Web three, um, tough, tough businesses. And even our, um, you know, our current clients are in ingredients and software and still Web three. And, you know, Businesses that are either A, emerging, B, changing, or C, hard to understand.

So we, uh, we thrive in that environment and we, we deliver  results driven creative. I was just, I was wowed by our media this year. Um, and the other thing I know wowed by our media, what's that mean, right? We're a, we're a full service agency, which is weird. And everybody says, don't do it. Um,  It's a mess, and I'm still a believer in it, that having, um, you know, my media person sitting right over there, my creatives right over there, my data analytics people there, my devs right there, just, and I'm pointing to the office in front of me, makes so much more sense.

Um, it's not that we don't love partners, uh, we wouldn't be here without, um, a lot of our partner networks, like Joe and these guys at Fiorit, which is, uh, Helped us out on a mix of projects and, uh, there are still projects that we partner. We just have to, um, but that core of having everybody in, um, just allows us to deliver better work and scale.

I think the right way

Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. And, and I was there seeing them all and you're outgrowing your space, but it's, it's fun to visit and see, you Just everybody hyped and, and collaborating and saying hi and all that. It's such a great environment, um, that you've created and, and the rest of your team has created, uh, John, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about just because you have a, you have such deep experience and just a slightly different way of thinking about things, but what are some common myths or misconceptions that.  You see in the world of the agency world.

there's a lot. I think, um,  you know, when that comes to mind is.  Ideas, right? There's often this, um,  this myth that, you know, a great idea is going to win just because it's a great idea. And a lot of times, right, a great idea will hold up, will stay on the test, but it takes work. Um, and there's a, uh, I don't think a lot of people realize getting into this business, um, you know, early on the work it really takes and especially the work it really takes as an owner, from my vantage point, you know, from a, you know, not just, uh, you know, um, ideating, selling it in, working it through the system, but obviously building the system behind the scenes that can bring it to market.

So to sum it up, right, like the, um, you know, great ideas are almost, there's tons of them. They're a commodity, but the people who can bring them to market are really what, what we look for and really what I think what matters and bring them to market the right way. And it's still a bet, but, uh, you gotta do the work.

Yep. Yeah. It's not, I like the comment about it's not just an idea. You know, I think a lot of  think about an agency is just say, Oh, I'm paying them for an idea. Um, and that's just part of it. It's the idea can be awesome, but that if you don't have execution, um, you're not going to get to the same place and you need to do both.

Well,

Yeah. And there's, there's always like, it's, it's very interesting. There's two stages. I mean, I look at sometimes my job is, is how long can I hold that idea through a complex organization? Right. We, you know, we serve,  you know, both of us serve multi million and billion dollar clients with lots of stakeholders, uh, lots of influencers, decision makers, technology and marketing and different teams throughout the business and everybody.

So wants and needs, you know, uh, a voice or, you know, to, to touch that. And how do you, how do you hold the integrity of that, that idea, whether it be the idea of a campaign, the idea of a brand, um, cause they're, they're very similar in a lot of ways. And you can swap idea with strategy. How do you carry it through without it falling apart or getting softened?

So that end of the day, Um, the end user loves it and does what we want them to. Um, and then, right, like, how do we, not only how do we get, once we've got it to them, now we've got to keep it in their hands and keep them excited and hit the right channels and stalk them, well, maybe not stalk them, but, uh, serve them the right information where it's, uh, nonobtrusive in a nice way.

Yeah.  So, uh, and, and John, we had some good timing today. Um, uh, we learned some news as of today, uh, in the agency world. Uh, uh, I saw the headline this morning. I haven't had a chance to dig too deep into it. Uh, but I believe it was interpublic group and Omnicom.  merged or one purchase the other, maybe, you know, a little bit more, but, uh, do you want to shed some light on what happened and what you're seeing and why it might've happened and what it means for the future?

Yeah. So I don't know the final terms of the deal, but they are now one big mega holding company, which, um,  is, is, is an interesting, right? Like it's, it's,  you know, I'm selfishly, uh, I've got a positive perspective on it as a small independent agency. Um, it does a lot of good for us because it's, um,  a big agency requires a big company.

And they may even be too big to serve some companies and they may have to shift resources. I don't know how that's going to shake out, but typically in any merger and acquisition, um,  you know, there's, there's consolidation among companies, clients, people. So what that means for us is there's a lot of work You know, a lot of great people come into the market.

Like they're incredibly talented people at these holding companies period. Um, and there are more independent agencies that are going to stem out of those people, whether they, they join folks like us or they start their own business and more independent agencies, I think are a good thing. Right? It's as is, um, hard as competition can be.

Uh, it does make you so much better as a business. Um, and then, like, like, right, like to run a big company. It is hard. I'm very curious to see how clients are going to, um,  see that. I think some will see it as a huge benefit with more eyes and the smartest of the smart in the room. Um, and others might see it as, uh, too much, uh, too much control, too much control over the way they price too much.

Uh, and I don't know the answer, but I, I do, and I am bullish on what it means in a for,  uh, folks like us.

Yeah. I mean, it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but I appreciate that perspective and what it means for the independent agency, what it means for, You know the employees of those groups what it means for those groups in general and you know most importantly what it means for The clients that are being served by both what's going to be is it going to be a different better, you know fit It's just an an evolution of Of what's happening in our world?  um, which leads me into a great next question that I wanted to ask you is like  Why the agency model? Why did you bet so big on this? Like, why are you going after this? And by the way, your growth has been pretty quick. You didn't mention this, but you've only been doing Galetka plus for a couple of years, I believe.

Maybe,

Yeah.

little bit more than that because it was during COVID when you didn't, and I couldn't see you, but, um, uh, why, why the agency model? Why bet big on it?

Yeah. So, uh, well, I'll answer that first question. So five years on paper, uh, probably, I'd say four years active and having employees and retainers and all that good stuff. Uh, why the agency model? Uh, well, there's, there's a, there's a personal love, right? Like, I'll, I'll go back and I'll kind of work my way out.

And there's, uh,  there's an amazing thing that I found agencies do. The, um, We provide a place where we get to make stuff for a living, number one. But we provide a place for artists, makers, and people to, you know, kind of come into this world and make commercial art and whether they stay in it and continue to grow and bring their art to market, or they use this as a personal, like, uh, like a feeder to their passion.

Um, a lot of great artists that jump in and out of the field and it's awesome. I think the power of what we do to maintain the arts. is huge just at the community level. Um, so personal passion, community benefit and, um, kind of next stages. There's a real business. That's what we do right? And which is Awesome to see and it's awesome to see it work on multiple levels because when you put a campaign in market, whether you're doing an ad campaign or you put a website or you put an app or you put a all that stuff together in, it works and clients numbers go up, whether that's, you know, um, You know, they're earning new clients are generating millions from these campaigns.

They're getting impressions, whatever kind of KPIs or metrics we sort of like beginning to see that work is awesome. And then to watch the money come in for your clients is just  So that that business benefit, right? And that usually, right, if we do, our job comes back to us and kind of recycle. So I can then give more to my community, right?

This is our 4th year, the office street club, which I'm super pumped. And I hope it. to make it to 10 or more, right? We can give more to buying local art and some of the things we love and we can hire more people that are, are practicing in this community and give them a way to  continue to create. Uh, so it's a really, really just love the circle, I guess circle of value that the agency world provides.

Yeah, I mean, and you've, you've seen it all from, you know, the, the different types of agencies to the different locations, to the different sizes, to large, to conglomerates, to your own, uh, to partnerships, to, you know, all of that.  I mean, you're all in on this basically. And from what I've seen over the years,

Oh yeah, I am. And I'm, I'm, I always tell people damn lucky, right? There's, you know, there's very few people who get to do this, uh, for a living.  So if you, if you look at really the big numbers, right, it's, it's some stupid, there's like, what, 400 million people in the country and you have 200, 000 of us working creative, even if, even if you triple that, right, like I'm dead wrong.

I'm like, I'm going off some old Google numbers that I probably run into, but you know,  put it to.  It's still a massive, like, it's still a small percentage of the world that gets to, that gets to do this. So I consider,  consider myself very lucky and I want to make sure that others get to continue to do it.

yeah. And I guess that leads into well said and leads into a question that I've had for you about, you know, if there are people that are creators. and they're out there and we're giving them a place for a job and get to do that and bring things to life. But there's also our dear friend AI that is newer in this world. Um, you know, are you still believing in the creative people process in the world of AI where I can ask chat GPT to create an image for me? What are, what are your thoughts about where we head in that world and what it means for the creatives?

Yeah. I mean, I think I'm more bullish on the human  creative than ever with AI. Now, let me, let me give a little color to that. So it's, it's not just a rah rah creative. Uh, we've, um,  We use AI across our work. We use it for image generation storyboarding. We use it as an accelerator feeder to make our work better.

Because right right now in the world of, you know, commercial AI and in 2024, it's really good at  understanding what's expected. And if we can understand what's expected faster, we can deliver better results. Um, if it can get out of the way of some of the, um, you know, work we had to do to dig through data and grab insights or at least accelerate that process, it's made the creative better.

Um, so right now, you know, for us, it's an accelerator and it's a, it's a superpower for creative. And I think, you know, a lot of people, you know, that's, that's, that's kind of on the operational side of it. And then on the, the, the work product side. You know, I think a lot of people can tell when it's what's expected or what I generated, um, without even running an algorithm by an image or copy or anything that it's going to get better where that that sort of stature be and go away.

There's no, there's no question. But, um, I do think right that will, um,  You know, people are people. We connect with each other, and we always yearn for a more human touch. So, like, with the AI perfecting a lot of the craft and making things too perfect, I think people will, uh, yearn for a human touch on things, and, you know, a lot of folks, I don't know how to explain why I like this, but I like it.

Uh, you hear, you hear that a lot,  and that's, um, that has to do, I think, a lot with, uh, The human touch and imperfection. So for me, it's like, it's more opportunity. It's an accelerator, it's a new tool to, um, make things better. And even, right, even amplify our work further, bring it to new channels. So I, I would say bullish on AI and excited about it.

It's gonna kill jobs. It's gonna make people change. It's gonna force me to change my behavior. It sucks changing behavior. Um, it sucks trusting a machine sometimes, but, you know, the value that I think we'll get, um, right now from everything I know, read, touch, play with, work with for the past, you know, at least five years in this company and years before, uh, tells me more that this is a, like an incredible, an incredible asset to an accelerator to what we do than a, than a, um,

Right,  Even, even myself, who's not a creative, I, I don't know that I could have identified a, uh, an AI image long ago, but then I started trying to make some of my own using ai. And then it's really easy now to spot an AI, or a lot easier, I guess, to spot an AI generated image. So if you don't know, if you're curious how to do that, just go try and make your own and you'll see kind of what comes through and, and what happens.

That's a good point. A lot of people are not enough. People talk about how much work the good AI, um, images and writing how much, you know, there's 40 hours of prompt engineering put into, you know, great images or the good stuff coming out. Right? So there's there's still work to be done. Um, It's just a different way.

Yeah, by the way, John, don't judge the image that I create, uh, for the headline for this podcast, because it is of course, AI generated and  I'm getting, I'm, I'm lowering the number of prompts that it takes, but sometimes you still like, it'll, you know, mess up a letter or, you know, spell something wrong, even though you're.

Giving it verbatim, what it should say. And like, I mean, it's not perfect. It's very helpful for a non creative to have that opportunity, but, um, no judgment on the, on the image that I create. And if you can make a better one, I'll, I'll, I'll take it.

Let's see what you come up with first. Just tell it to act as a act as a Chicago independent ad agency, uh, creative, uh, with a red shirt on

Yeah, exactly.

looks by the old wishbone suited when it comes up,

likes AI?  I

right? Not going away.

I love it. I love it. Well, John, this has been an absolutely wonderful conversation, but unfortunately that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for joining us, John.

Yeah. Appreciate the opportunity. Always, always a pleasure. And I look forward to talking soon.

All right. And, and key, uh, for to finding John probably the easiest way is galetkaplus.  com. Um, you'll find that in the show notes and links all over the place to that. Um, and also wanted to thank our listeners for joining us. You can download episodes of our  📍 program by going to a fjords. com slash podcast, or by subscribing to the show on iTunes, SoundCloud, Spotify, and others as well.

‍